Season 3 – Episode 016: With Richard Rolls
Risk management—it’s the corporate equivalent of eating your greens. You know it’s good for you, but sometimes you’d rather scoop your eyeballs out with a teaspoon than sit through another risk workshop. Yet, as this episode of A Job Done Well reveals, risk management isn’t just about spreadsheets, buzzwords, and endless meetings. It’s about stopping bad things from happening, so you can actually get on with your job.
Joined by risk expert Richard Rolls, Jimmy and James dissect why risk management often feels like a bureaucratic nightmare, why people hide problems instead of addressing them, and how middle managers can use risk frameworks to their advantage—without losing their minds. Richard, who’s seen risk from every angle (and survived), explains how good risk management is less about ticking boxes and more about having honest conversations, making decisions, and owning your shop like a CEO.
The trio also tackle the absurdity of risk scores, the art of dissenting without getting fired, and why the real risks aren’t meteor strikes—they’re the small things piling up until everything goes belly up. So if you’ve ever rolled your eyes at a risk workshop or pretended everything’s “green” to avoid scrutiny, this episode is for you. Because, let’s face it, ignoring risk won’t make it go away—it’ll just make the fallout worse.
Five Key Points:
- The real risks aren’t meteors—they’re the small failures that add up to disaster.
- Risk management isn’t just for auditors—it’s about owning your work and avoiding chaos.
- The best risk culture starts with honesty: if everything’s “green,” someone’s lying.
- Middle managers: run your team like a CEO, document your risks, and use the system to your advantage.
- Risk managers aren’t the enemy—they’re there to help you succeed (without the slip-ups).
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[00:00:03] James: Hello, I’m James. Jimmy: Hi, I’m Jimmy, and welcome to A Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance and enjoyment at work.
[00:00:15] James: How you doing? Jimmy: I’m doing well, James, how are you? James: I’m fabulous, thank you very much. What are we talking about today then?
[00:00:23] Jimmy: Today we have a special guest, a good friend of ours who’s a risk expert. It’s a subject we’ve had digs at before—it’s like medicine: good for you, but sometimes you hate it. So we’re going to talk about why you need it, how it helps, and what you can do to manage risks and perform better.
[00:00:42] James: Mate, I’d rather scoop my eyeballs out with a teaspoon than sit in some risk meetings. Jimmy: Well, we’re going to convert you into a risk disciple over the next half hour. Welcome, Rich.
[00:01:09] Richard: Thanks.
[00:01:11] Jimmy: For those who are diligent listeners, you’ll recall James used a conversation we had with Rich a while ago as an example of how not to respond. But we’ll stay off politics today and stick to risk. Rich, why don’t you tell us a bit about yourself?
[00:01:40] Richard: I’ve had a bit of a curly career—I’ve been an auditor, a strategy consultant, a program manager, and I’ve run operations and contact centers. I’ve worked in first-line risk, second-line risk, regulatory relations, and I’ve presented to boards. Currently, I work for VocaLink, part of MasterCard. We run real-time payments, direct debits, and ATMs—70% of household bills, 90% of salaries, and 98% of state benefits. So if you ever want to see your money again, you’d better hope my risk management is on point.
[00:02:54] Jimmy: So if we don’t get paid, we know who to blame.
[00:02:58] Richard: Exactly.
[00:03:02] James: Let’s start with a simple question: what is risk management?
[00:03:07] Richard: It’s simple—anyone can do it. We all do it instinctively. There are four steps: What’s my risk? How scary is it? What am I going to do about it? How do I monitor it? This morning, I did it on the school run. It’s miserable weather, so I thought: What’s the chance it’ll rain? How long will I be out? Do I need an umbrella, a coat, or should I ask my wife to do it? That’s risk management.
[00:04:03] Jimmy: So we all do it, but we don’t call it risk management.
[00:04:16] Richard: Exactly. The more important the risk, the more sophisticated you need to be. If it’s just the school run, the downside is small. If it’s my job, the downside is huge.
[00:04:29] James: My issue is that risk management can be a game. People use big words and complicated charts to look clever, but they don’t talk about real problems. On the other hand, if you stop bad things from happening, that’s progress.
[00:04:51] Richard: It can be done well or badly. People focus on the cost—the workshops, the spreadsheets—but if you avoid problems, it makes life better. I’ve seen organizations ignore root causes, and it gets messy.
[00:05:11] Jimmy: I’ve been on both ends. Sometimes it’s suffocating, bureaucratic, and feels like a box-ticking exercise. But you need it—otherwise, you’re drowning in auditors and remediation.
[00:05:32] Richard: My job is to cut down on bureaucracy and focus on conversations and decisions. Too often, people get lost in spreadsheets and lose sight of the goal.
[00:06:03] James: Let’s talk about bad risk management. I’ve seen people debate risk scores endlessly, trying to make the numbers look good, but it doesn’t change anything. Or people refuse to admit they have a risk because it makes them look bad.
[00:06:38] Richard: That’s about culture. People need to feel safe raising issues. If senior management shouts down problems, you lose honesty. You need an “obligation to dissent”—people should challenge the status quo.
[00:07:19] Jimmy: What if you’re a middle manager stuck in a bad system?
[00:07:40] Richard: Run your shop like you’re the CEO. Understand your risks, document them, and fix what you can. If someone audits you, show them you’re on it. And don’t fight the system—work with it. Suggest improvements. Risk managers are human; they’d rather work with someone engaged than someone who resists.
[00:08:56] James: My take: talk to your customers, find your problems, and have a plan. People will cut you slack if you’re honest.
[00:09:12] Richard: And think about your career. Showing you can manage risk makes you stand out.
[00:09:24] Jimmy: What’s your advice for individuals or team leaders?
[00:09:31] Richard: Two things: improve how you run your shop by thinking about real risks, and embrace risk management. Risk managers want you to succeed—they’re not the enemy.
[00:10:06] James: So, culture starts with your behavior. Bring risk managers in, be honest, and suggest alternatives.
[00:10:24] Jimmy: And remember: we all do risk management. We just don’t call it that.
[00:10:42] Richard: Everyone wants the same thing: a successful organization. Be open, act like an owner, and give suggestions.
[00:11:24] James: Thanks, Rich. Jimmy: Thank you.
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