Office Politics or Workplace Warfare?

James: 0:03

hello, I’m James.

Jimmy: 0:04

Hi, I’m Jimmy.

James: 0:05

Welcome to A Job Done Well,

Jimmy: 0:08

the podcast about the world of work and how to improve the daily grind

James: 0:14

Good morning. How’s your week been? Good

Jimmy: 0:17

Yeah, that’s right. I’m glad you asked me first week, James. you can make out like you’re thoughtful, caring person that’s interested in other people’s, views.

James: 0:24

all the sham.

Jimmy: 0:25

It certainly is. No, my week’s been okay, I was gonna share one experience with you. I was renewing my daughter’s mobile phone with three. And, mobile phone companies, I mean, they just frustrate the life out of you. She’s come to the end of her contract But three will offer new customers better deals than existing So don’t want to retain you Okay, so I’ll get a new deal with three But then she can’t switch her phone number from an old deal with three to a new deal with So it’s actually easier to go to another company

James: 0:59

to go to another

Jimmy: 1:01

Yes, and that is a Kafkaesque nightmare wherever you look, wherever you turn, you’re frustrated. And, I just think mobile phone companies should do better.

James: 1:11

Anyway, I had a much more positive week. I went to, the theatre last night. I went to see a play called Woman in Black.

Jimmy: 1:19

absolutely. I tell you,

James: 1:20

I absolutely. I tell you, I have not been so scared in my entire life. It was really well done. A couple of people on stage. All it was was your imagination, a couple of chairs and some sound effects, and I was scared witless. It was so bad, my 15 year old daughter threw me out of bed so she could sleep next to my wife, and I had to sleep in the spare room last night. she was that scared. So, what are we talking about this week?

Jimmy: 1:43

talking about this week? Yeah, and so, what

James: 1:50

and so, go on, give me a definition, you’re a of a master of the dark arts, what’s the definition of politics? So,

Jimmy: 1:55

of a master of the dark arts, what’s the definition of politics? And we don’t mean, you know, this week we’re not trying to compete with the rest of this politics. Alistair and Rory can relax. We’re talking about politics within the workplace. So a couple of definitions for you. Activities aimed at improving somebody’s status or increasing power within an organization. Or, the relationships within a group or organization that allow particular people to have power. Yeah. And then

James: 2:32

And then go on, so what does it mean to play

Jimmy: 2:34

he need to play in politics? Yeah, I know a couple of

James: 2:39

a couple of them. And the one I like is real politics, a German phrase, but that means politics based on practical objectives rather than ideals. Um, and so the real bit there means sort of practical or actual. And so sort of pragmatic politics. So an example of that would be on what’s going on in Israel at the moment and Palestine and the release of hostages. People have obviously put aside their ethical positions to make sure that things get done. So, you know, real politics. Yeah,

Jimmy: 3:11

and then the opposite of that really is Machiavellian politics. So divorcing politics from ethics.

James: 3:22

So, divorcing politics from ethics, cunning, scheming, and unscrupulous, especially

Jimmy: 3:34

I like that turn of phrase there, don’t

James: 3:35

of phrase there, don’t you? Describe the said individual beautifully. Anyway, how many political faces have you got, Jimmy?

Jimmy: 3:41

think the thing about office politics, it is seen as a dirty word. And it’s not really something that people discuss in any detail or work through, plan for, manage. It is something to be avoided. but for me, I think, There is that Machiavellian side to it. And that’s the one that we always think about. But actually, it is about influence and relationships. And so therefore, to me, it is something that, You know, and it helps you really get things done. What about you? What’s your perspective? suspect you’re different from me on this one.

Scarlett 2i2 USB: 4:20

I am not nearly as politically adept as I might be, and for me it just gets in the way. But I don’t think you can avoid it, I mean it’s driven by human ego and it’s just inevitable. Yeah,

Jimmy: 4:32

So I read an interesting article in the Harvest Business Review about office politics and this person who’d become a world expert in office politics. I took two things from it. First they said that all the sessions that they did, they asked people to say the three words that came to their mind about office politics, 99 percent of the words were negative. Secondly, they said that in their career they had always It was taking the moral high ground and said, I don’t do office politics, I don’t get involved. And then quite a way through their career, they got made redundant, and they reflected on it and realised that, because they hadn’t done office politics, and hadn’t managed it at all, that’s the reason why they got made redundant. It wasn’t just a, a numbers thing. It was somebody somewhere had decided it was theirs.

James: 5:21

Yeah. I can sympathize with that. And for me, I think. well, it’s everywhere. So my mother, is on the local parish council. This is in a sleepy little village, and, um, the politics there is rife. It is absolutely everywhere you look. A friend of mine, Chris, has got this rule of thirds. He says when he was working, he spent one third of his time politicking, another third of his time being politicked, and the final third doing something useful, I

Jimmy: 5:47

I like Chris’s rule of thirds. I do think that that’s part of the reason why we’re talking about it today, if you can expand that third where you’re doing something useful, or manage more effectively the other two thirds, you’re going to achieve a load more the other thing that I’d observe is I think there are splits in how people manage politics think about it. I think there are 10 percent of people who relish it, they roll their sleeves up, they love the cut and thrust it. There are then 10 percent of people who like the person in the Harvards article you know, I don’t do it. Claim the moral high ground. And then there are 80 percent of people who are a bit passive. just, they just get buffeted around by it. the 10 percent who relish it, we’re not necessarily talking to them today. The 10 percent who are in the ostrich camp, we’re talking to them as you can’t be an ostrich. And the 80 percent of people, we’re going to give some helpful hints and tips on how you can manage it.

James: 6:44

Yeah. And it’s, it’s not all bad. It’s like that saying about the force, isn’t it? You remember that? Use the force, Luke. There’s a good side to the force and there’s a bad side to the force. So go on. Some good things about politics.

Jimmy: 6:55

Well, I think, it can really help you about building relationships. It can be a way of getting things done.

James: 7:03

Yeah. And for me, one which I never really thought that’s politicking, but actually networking, getting out there and understanding what people’s problems and opportunities were and finding out different things you can do is, I mean, it’s absolutely politics.

Jimmy: 7:16

Yeah. And I think it’s really key how you personally think about it. If you view it as, a Machiavellian scheming thing, you’re going to behave one way. If you see it as a way of getting things done. And that’s your mindset. You have a completely different attitude towards it. your mindset. You have a we’ve got a, really good acronym that we

James: 7:40

think we’ve got a um, really good acronym. James,

Jimmy: 7:46

and it’s a rubbish one. James, collective responsibility. something you don’t understand. Again, politics. Anyhow, we were talking about it and we realised that there are three dimensions that you look at And one of them is minimize. How do you minimize the amount of politics and the amount of the two thirds you experience within your team or your organization? understanding understanding how you get things done. And then the reality is it’s going to exist. So how do you manage it? So that’s it. Minimize, understand, manage. Mum.

James: 8:20

Mum. Mum. Easy

Jimmy: 8:21

It’s easy to remember.

James: 8:22

Easy to remember, and a bit rubbish. well done, Jimmy. Creatively inspirational. Anyway, why would you minimize if you foster cooperation within your team, you can get more things done. And one of the best ways to do that, and we keep going back around the same circle, is this whole thing about clarity of purpose. So if everybody knows what they are trying to do, then that is a great way of taking politics out of the situation. Because if there isn’t that clarity It just becomes a void and agendas materialize and everybody’s in it for themselves. So that will be the first thing I would recommend. Just really be clear about what you’re trying to achieve. you

Jimmy: 9:03

need to have that purpose and what happens in a void we’ve discussed, but hold people to account, do things that align with that organization’s purpose and, call out when they don’t, when they have their own agenda. Aren’t aligned with the

James: 9:20

now another point is really, you just have to be stupid if you’re creating unnecessary competition within your organization. No, my personal hot point. A lot of people do this, The whole thing about ranking and stacking personnel and saying who’s best based on the perceived performance. Just creates a whole lot of politics in an organization. it’s almost like a conversation. which of your children do you prefer? If you can create equality amongst people, then you will minimize the politics.

Jimmy: 9:47

old and, don’t give people reasons to be about things. quite often, we create systems, and processes that, drive discontent, Transparent about it, be open about the reason why things are happening a certain way. I think that then takes the heat and the politics out of things.

James: 10:07

Yeah, and it also removes people’s misunderstanding and motivations if you’re transparent,

Jimmy: 10:12

At the end of the day, If you see things happen and you don’t understand them and nobody’s been transparent around them, you make up your own story and, you know, a lot of the time you’re not going to be right. So, you know, clear communication can also help, you know, minimise the amount of politics that exist in an organisation. So I think it is about creating alignment. So alignment on outcomes, alignment on behaviours, alignment on values. So the more you can be clear on what those things are and create alignment, the more politics disappears,

James: 10:46

and another thing that I think you can do which really helps minimize politics in a situation is stick your hand up when things go wrong, because if you take responsibility for things and don’t turn around and blame other people for it when things go wrong, then you might say it makes you feel vulnerable, but it does take the sting out and it makes it a lot easier for people to trust you..

Jimmy: 11:12

We’re all set and behave. Really to help take the sting out politics, things like. You know, honesty, openness. It’s quite hard in the face of people behaving like that. Uh, really. Be really macro value. Absolutely. It’s ultimately all about trust. Isn’t it. Of course there is also. Ultimately the modernization strategies. Y from the situation. I’ve left an organization as a result of the not being able to cope with the politics there. There’ve been times when I felt really uncomfortable about it. I hate the idea of self promotion and now. I have. Damaged my career by not applying for jobs where that was the game, but we start really damaged, you know? You don’t like it. Get involved.

James: 11:58

SO we’ve had, minimize, next understand it. I think being aware of what the politics are in an organization is really important, because then you don’t trip over. Now an obvious one, is understanding what the informal networks are. Whenever I’ve started working for a new organization, you soon start to discover who went to school with who, who’s followed who around different organizations, and where allegiances lie. it’s just understanding those things is really important. And then the other thing is being clear about what are appropriate ways of behaving in an organization. So if it’s expected that you will challenge ideas, that’s one thing. If it’s expected that you won’t, then that’s another. But you just need to understand what those ways of behaviors are. Yeah,

Jimmy: 12:40

when I joined. One organization, I started expecting challenge from my team. I just didn’t get it. In my previous organization, I used to get a lot of challenge from my team. And, and so I hadn’t really understood that it wasn’t an environment where people challenged. They just did what the leader says. And I was used to people challenging what I said so that we could get to a better answer. So I think it is great point, James, about understanding the, the kind of behavioral norms in an organization. And you know, you join an organization, you look at structure chart, don’t you?

James: 13:12

don’t

Jimmy: 13:13

What’s the hierarchy? Who reports to who? That’s not how things get done.

James: 13:16

not how

Jimmy: 13:17

So, I think really understanding within any organization who are the people of influence. And it, it isn’t always the most senior people. My advice is always stay the right side of the exec assistants of the senior folk.

James: 13:31

Oh absolutely, and the person on reception because they do talk. Now another one I think is understanding what people’s maps of the world are. So there’s this thing called neuro linguistic programming and one of the things that they will talk about is everybody carries in their brain a map of how the world works. Of course that isn’t a reality of how the world works, it’s just how they believe it works. But understanding that and understanding people’s motivations being able to predict the way they will behave will really help you

Jimmy: 13:59

Understanding that really helped me, uh on one of the courses I did a few years ago, was the ticking model. When you’re approaching somebody, you’ve got a meeting with them or you bump into them or whatever it is, think about what’s going on for them, what’s ticking in their head. And it won’t necessarily be the subject that you’re talking about. It might be on the way to work, they had a really challenging journey. It might be they didn’t sleep well the previous night. It might be some challenges they’ve got at home. It might be they’re, fed up because their football team’s doing really badly. There’s a million things. Be influencing some behavior and you tend to think you and the subject you’re talking about, thinking a little bit more, empathetically about what’s going on for them, can help you figure out how you communicate and approach them.

James: 14:52

One of my faux pas. I remember walking into my boss’s office. he never had the door closed, and he never had the blinds down, but he had the blinds down and the door closed. Anyway, he just had a chat with somebody and the door opened, and I was, just as I was walking past, and I said What’s going on in here then? You got blood on the walls? And it just sacked him. It wasn’t my best moment. So, the Tiki model, understanding what’s going on, very helpful. But plays back to Stephen Covey’s book, doesn’t it? His Seven Habits. The first one, seek first to understand and then be understood.

Jimmy: 15:22

So understanding what people want and why they want it before you start putting your own point across. Really very important. Yeah, important. The, Seven Habits is a great book. So anyone who hasn’t read it, it’s very simple, straightforward stuff, but it really does make a big difference. one of those habits, seek first to understand is important because sometimes office politics can be quite subtle. It isn’t always great big grandstanding things that hit you like a sledgehammer. Sometimes it can be really, really subtle behaviors, subtle ways of getting things done. So it’s important to really take the time to, understand. Anyhow, that’s kind of the second part.

James: 16:04

The third bit, M, stands for manage it. So how do you manage things ethically, Jimmy? How do you get things done? I

Jimmy: 16:11

done? your point’s a good one, yeah. Manage things ethically. You have to think about, where your comfort zone is on this. Because I think a lot of people just take the attitude I don’t play politics, I’m not getting involved. I don’t think that is incredibly naive, but I do think, you need to reframe. So reframing your attitude, thinking about what would be the most helpful attitude that you could have towards politics, rather than thinking it’s a horrible corrosive thing, actually, thinking about it as a way to get things done, another one of the seven habits, thinking win win, so trying to find things to off. Wayne’s for you and Wayne’s for everyone else. You know that that can help you change your attitude towards it. I had a a really great example of how I changed my views around one aspect of politics when I had a conversation with a boss of ours Lee Powell. And Lee talked to me about how I managed stakeholders. And I, I had this slightly naive attitude that, you do a, do a job well, Your boss will appreciate it and he’ll tell everyone you’re doing a great job. And Lee said to me, look, you know, I don’t have the time to share what you’ve achieved with everyone. You need to do that. You need to take some responsibility for sharing it. But the reason why you’re sharing it isn’t to show off. It’s to show people some of the lessons that you’ve learned, some of the successes that you’ve had, so that they can learn from it. So your sharing is helping people learn. And that really helped me reframe, because A, I thought, yeah, Lee’s right, it’s not his responsibility to do it, it’s mine. And B, I’m doing it for the sake of helping people learn, not just showboating. So that’s a good example of of reframing. I tHink also investing time in stakeholder management is key. Spending time with people around the organizations, when you want to get stuff done. a great example when, I used to take stuff to a board meeting, I would always think in advance What would be the different attitudes of the board members we would have one board member who was, really into the detail, quite risk averse. So quite often I’d go and see him in advance and spend some time with him so that, A, I could understand what his concerns were. B, he could get, the opportunity to understand the detail. He was the head of a board meeting and therefore he was often a bit more predisposed to what we were talking about. So its that sort of thing, investing time outside of meetings can quite often save you time in meetings and make the outcomes more successful. Yeah,

James: 18:59

know it sounds like it’s creating extra work. I do remember But, if you don’t and you get in the way, then in the long term, it will, um, it’ll cost you. It really is an investment of time to get to where you want to be Now another thing, and this is, I suppose, my personal weakness. is just thinking about how you actually show up in an environment, because you might think you aren’t political, but everybody casts a shadow. So on a couple of occasions, much to my sins, I have said and done things which, with the benefit of hindsight, were really stupid. I remember on one occasion walking into a meeting room and saying, Yeah, we’ve just killed all these projects, isn’t it great? And looking around the room and then realizing that there were about six or seven people around the room who’d invested a couple of million quid in these projects. And was I really surprised when they weren’t with me when I said what we were going to do next? Now, I would stay to this day that we were doing exactly the right thing and we should have killed the projects, they were a waste of time. But, with the benefit of hindsight, that really was a cack handed way of going about things.

Jimmy: 20:02

is, a great example where Your attitude was. This is the right answer, but your way of going about it didn’t get people on the side.

James: 20:12

absolutely not. So

Jimmy: 20:14

So I think the other thing to have a think about is, You might think you’re not political, but everyone casts a shadow within their organisation. And sometimes people forget that people have perceptions of you and your role based on what your job title is and I used to think I’m quite reproachable So therefore I’m not intimidating and somebody pointed out as chief operating officer just because you were doing that job. You were intimidating So I think you have a reputation It might be in your view unintentionally scary But you need to think about how you’re showing up because people will have perceptions that in turn Creates politics and you have to dismantle some of those perceptions in order to get stuff done Yeah,

James: 21:00

personally, with the benefit of hindsight, again, There have been numerous occasions where I’ve got to the point, I’ve been on the money, I’d stick to it, but it’s just scary for people and it’s not helped me in any way, shape or form. So another thing there is I think just, it’s good to understand other people’s maps of the world, but do you know your map of the world? Do you understand what’s driving you? Because if you can understand that, that will really help you in the way you interact with others as well.

Jimmy: 21:27

I here’s sOme, some really good ways of, managing, your way around politics, thinking about stakeholders, how you show up, how you influence people, reframing. They’re all good techniques for helping manage politics, but you’ve got to get a balance between how you, wrong words, but how you play politics and being true to yourself.

James: 21:51

You know, it’s very easy to say, well, I said the right thing. But if it didn’t make a damn difference, was it really the right thing to do?

Jimmy: 21:58

and, you know, I think that’s a great point. And your example is a good one that highlights that. you were saying, in theory, the right thing. These projects shouldn’t exist. But, you know, does speaking mind Well, Does speaking your mind change the situation? Actually, in that example, speaking your mind had the opposite effect. it meant that people weren’t supportive of your suggestion of the way forward. So I think, yes, it’s great to speak your mind and say what you think. But do think about Is it going to cause a good outcome? Is it going to change things the way, that you want it to?

James: 22:38

Yeah, I’ve had a flashback, this is like one of my one to ones from ten years ago. Anyway, moving on.

Jimmy: 22:43

So, overall, our view is, you have to embrace it more. It’s not about workplace warfare. It’s about getting things done. And a helpful way, is my, my acronym,

James: 22:58

Yeah. Can I charge him, Bob. So remember what does that mean? First of all, you’ve got to minimize the politics. And for me, the key thing there really is just getting really cute about purpose so that everybody knows what they are trying to do.

Jimmy: 23:12

So you make sure that everyone was aligned to that purpose. And hold them accountable for behaving in line with that.

James: 23:19

And another really powerful thing. Not that this ever happens to me is, but admit when you’ve got something wrong, because that will really take the sting out of the situation.

Jimmy: 23:27

And then you understand. Really understand how things are done around here.

James: 23:33

Yeah. So first of all, think about people’s desires and motivations. What’s making them tick.

Jimmy: 23:38

I understand the informal networks.

James: 23:40

And also particularly if you’re about to say something really stupid. I understand yourself.

Jimmy: 23:45

And then accepting the politics probably is going to exist. Manage. How do you manage the politics within your organization to ensure you are as effective as possible?

James: 23:57

So that is all about reframing you. You’ve got to reframe and realize this is not a waste of time and it’s not one that mid ship is a valuable activity.

Jimmy: 24:05

And invest time in relationships. And communication.

James: 24:10

So then you’ve got it. Office politics. It’s not workplace warfare.

Jimmy: 24:13

No just thinking mom. Hopefully you’ve found this episode interesting and enjoyable. If you have, we have a small call to action for you. please share it with one person. We’re really keen to get the information out there that we’re sharing.

James: 24:31

Currently. Yeah, and if you’ve got any questions, this week we had a look, we opened the old inbox and it was like tumbleweed. As Jimmy said, it was like on one of those WebExes, you know, one of those big corporate WebExes, when you say, are there any questions, and then there aren’t any, and it all goes very horribly quiet. But then I pointed out to Jimmy that nobody’s used WebEx in 10 years, so I’m feeling quite smug about that. Anyway, thank you very much for your time, have a good week.

Jimmy: 24:53

Thanks everyone, have a great week. If you’d like to find out more about how James and I can help your business, then have a look at our website at ajobdonewell.Com.